Podcast Transcriptions

Pursue What Matters

Episode 69: Imposter Syndrome

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Dr. Melissa Smith 0:00
Have you ever found yourself sitting in a room and taken a look around at all the impressive people and thought, how did I get in here? And have found yourself so intimidated? You just wanted to crawl out of the room? Well, chances are, you’re not alone. And chances are you have had that moment of imposter syndrome. Well join me today we are going to talk all about imposter syndrome and how to get over it.

Dr. Melissa Smith 0:35
Hi, I’m Dr. Melissa Smith, welcome to the pursue what matters podcast where we focus on what it takes to thrive in love and work? Well, today, we’re going to talk all about imposter syndrome. And if you follow any of the research or popular press on leadership, which of course I do, there’s plenty of talk these days about imposter syndrome. And boy, it is a real thing. So I was just recently talking with a friend at the gym while we were you know, mostly working out. And she was telling me about an upcoming presentation that she’s participating in. And she’s, she’s going to be on a panel. And as she was preparing for the presentation, and the questions that were going to be part of the panel, she said that she had this moment of Oh, my goodness, what am I doing? I can’t answer these questions. And what if I make a fool of myself during the presentation? And, you know, so we had a good laugh about it, but like she was feeling pretty nervous about it. And my guess is she is not alone in having these feelings. And so you know, we laughed about it. And I told her, you know what preparation is overrated. Maybe you just shouldn’t have read those questions. So my guess is she is not alone. In her feelings, I definitely can relate to what she has experienced. And I, of course, told her that most of us can relate to that. And it’s not just a phenomenon for women. So we’ll definitely talk about that. This podcast is for you, if you’ve ever felt that way. If you’ve ever been in the room, where you’re like, oh, my goodness, how did anyone let me in this room? And how can I get out of this room? How can I not open my mouth? So I don’t make a fool of myself. So of course, this podcast is for you. It’s for my friend. And it’s for me, anyone who’s felt that way? Because most of us have had these feelings of doubt, those feelings of what have I gotten myself into those feelings of Can I be successful? those thoughts of I don’t belong here. And, you know, whether these are just fleeting thoughts, or whether they are more pervasive feelings that keep you from moving forward on pursuing what matters, this podcast is for you. Because, you know, this is probably, you know, some degree of imposter syndrome. Now, imposter syndrome is not, you know, it’s not a formal term. It’s, it’s kind of a layman’s term. But it is a helpful way to think about some of these thoughts and feelings and self doubt, that comes up. And, you know, imposter syndrome can be debilitating for some individuals, so we want to learn more about it. So imposter syndrome does not take you down, because you, my friend have important things to do. So first of all, what is imposter syndrome? anyway? Of course, like I said, we’re hearing a lot about it in the media these days, or maybe it’s just me, maybe, maybe I’m reading about it, because I’m feeling it more. Or I’m working with leaders where it’s coming up

Dr. Melissa Smith 4:32
more, I’m seeing it all over the place. But let’s do a quick overview of what imposter syndrome is, and the ways that may be showing up for you. And of course, more than anything, how you can overcome imposter syndrome. It is showing up for you in any degree. So of course every week with the podcast, my goal is to help you start lengthen your confidence to lead. And I tried to do that in one of three areas, whether that’s leading with clarity, leading with curiosity, or leading with community. And so the primary theme for this week’s podcast is leading with curiosity and curiosity. Of course, it’s all about developing self awareness. And, you know, when it comes to imposter syndrome, it is all about self awareness. Because the thing about imposter syndrome is we, right we can really get stuck in our head. And self doubt, if we are not careful, it will take us down. And that is so true when it comes to imposter syndrome. And so we really want to help you lead with curiosity, and cultivate some really good self awareness, and, of course, self compassion, so that you can combat these feelings and these thoughts of imposter syndrome. And you have some skills to help you in these moments, when you feel like you’d like to crawl out under the boardroom table. Because you don’t feel like you belong. And part of what I want you to know is you do belong, you do deserve a seat at the table. And let’s help you understand where these feelings of self doubt may come from for you, and how to really skill yourself up and help yourself in these moments so that you can get on with the business of leading and pursuing what matters, and really leading with more confidence. Because of course, that’s what we want to help you do. So with that, let’s move on and understand what imposter syndrome is. So, you know, it is a psychological phenomenon in which people are unable to internalize their accomplishments. Okay. So that’s the key here is that individuals, the individual has plenty of accomplishments, so very successful, very accomplished. But the trouble is with internalizing those accomplishments, and so that’s what we really want to pay attention to with imposter syndrome. And so it’s a pattern of behavior, where people doubt their accomplishments and have a persistent, often internalized fear of being exposed as a fraud. So the imagery that I think of is kind of this idea of like always looking over your shoulder, waiting for someone to say, hey, you don’t belong here. You know, I’m not sure how you got that job title, I’m not sure how you got that corner office, you don’t belong at the table, you don’t belong in that role. And so this pattern of behavior where people doubt their accomplishments, and have a persistent, internalized fear of being exposed as a fraud. And so of course, if that is how you feel, right, that internalized fear, it can lead to all sorts of behaviors to compensate for that fear.

Dr. Melissa Smith 8:23
So whether that is hustling and overcompensating by performing, it can really lead to a lot of perfectionistic behaviors, which, you know, if this is something you struggle with, I have a really great podcast coming up on perfectionism, because imposter syndrome, and perfectionism often go hand in hand. And so because of this fear, there’s often a tendency to compensate by a lot of over performing behaviors as a way of keeping the fear at bay. Okay, so if I’m perfect if I’m, if I over perform, then maybe I will, I’ll belong, maybe then someone won’t, you know, people won’t tap me on the shoulder and tell me that I don’t belong, or that I’m not good enough. So like I mentioned, imposter syndrome is it’s not an actual disorder, right? So you’re not you’re never going to find this or you. I highly doubt you will ever find this in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. So the DSM, it’s not there now. I doubt you’ll find it anytime soon. But it is a term that was coined by clinical psychologists Pauline clance and Suzanne IMEs back way back in 1978. So they found that despite having a lot of external evidence of accomplishments, people with imposter syndrome remain convinced that they didn’t deserve the success that they had. And so those are the researchers that and they were clinical psychologists that coined the term imposter syndrome. And so these individuals tend to attribute their success to luck or good timing, or dismiss it as others believing they were better, more intelligent and more competent than they actually are. And so this is where imposter syndrome can be really problematic, because there is really good evidence that the individual is quite competent and quite accomplished. But because of this internalized fear, the individual will dismiss that evidence about the accomplishments. And so it’s like, you know, how do you how do you combat that kind of fear, because, you know, there’s this willingness to reject direct evidence. And so in that way, it can be very pervasive, and very intractable. And so what we know about imposter syndrome is that both men and women experience it in roughly equal numbers. But again, it was initially studied in high achieving women. And so, you know, we hear about it a lot with high achieving women, but it’s not something that just happens for our high achieving women. It is common for men and women. And, you know, if you just like, if you allow yourself to have honest conversations with men and women, I think you would hear these experiences of imposter syndrome. And it was really, it was really interesting, because I was talking with my husband about this subject, earlier this week, as I was telling him that I was prepping this podcast and just, you know, sharing some of the research on it, because it was really interesting. And I was telling him about, like, some of the dynamics related to how imposter syndrome shows up. And, you know, no one has accused my husband as lacking in self confidence. He’s, he’s very competent, and very confident. And yet this dynamic of imposter syndrome really resonated for him, as I talked about the specific dynamics, which I will share with you in just a minute. And so it was really, it was a fun conversation, to think about the specific ways that imposter syndrome does show up for both men and women. And of course, that was just an anecdotal conversation. But I think it can be a disservice when we just say, Hey, this is just something that women experience, because it’s not true.

Dr. Melissa Smith 13:11
The result, or the research actually shows that men and women feel this way. And so it’s confidence in specific situations. And so this is, this is what I want you to, to understand, as we take a look at this a little bit more. Okay. So, you know, at first blush, when you look at imposter syndrome, you might conclude, boy, these individuals just struggle with self worth. They just lack confidence and self worth in their life. And so we just need to help them have more self worth and self confidence. And if you believe if you believe that, like, first of all, I mean, I mean, I think that’s a fair assessment at first glance, but you would be

Unknown Speaker 14:09

Dr. Melissa Smith 14:10
And so what we want to pay attention to with imposter syndrome, is that imposter syndrome is not necessarily about it’s not a question of self worth. And it’s also not a question of confidence. So do you remember what I just said, as I was talking to my husband about this issue? And I said, No one has ever accused him of lacking confidence and that is true. And yeah, as I talked to him about this research, he shared a situation in his life where he absolutely felt like he was an imposter. And it was a situation where he lacked a great deal of confidence, and he He’s a very confident person. And what he, the example that he shared, was feeling like he was an imposter, in response to a very specific circumstance, or situation. And that’s exactly what the research shows with imposter syndrome. So imposter syndrome is typically our response to certain circumstances or situations. So an example might be that you feel quite comfortable speaking to a group of individuals, you’ve spoken to many times before, that you come completely undone when you speak to a new group or a group of peers. So this is the key to pay attention to setting and circumstance really, really matters. So the example that my husband gave, so, you know, he is a physician. And he joined the military. And this is many years ago. But he said, his first day, when he was on base, at the military, he felt like such an imposter. He said, he did not feel like he belonged there. And it’s not because it didn’t feel right, he felt really good about his decision to join the military, he had always had a desire to serve. So it had nothing to do with that. He just, he did not feel like he had the credibility to be there. And he had, he felt like he was an imposter there. And it didn’t have anything to do with him lacking confidence. As a physician, it didn’t have anything to do with him lacking confidence, you know, as an individual, even, but it had everything to do with that new setting. And that new circumstance, the military was a new, setting a new circumstance, it was a totally new animal for him. And you know, that it was a new language in many ways, new uniforms, new way of speaking, new way of talking new way of, of, of carrying yourself everything was different. And for him, he felt like an imposter. And so I think that’s actually such a good example of how imposter syndrome can show up for us. And so new situations that are out of our comfort zone can be triggers for imposter syndrome. And so what is it about these new situations, right? Fear, they’re gonna kick up fear, because there’s a lot of uncertainty. We haven’t done them before. So of course, we don’t know. We don’t know the lay of the land, everything’s new. There’s not much predictability going on. There’s vulnerability, we’re moving out of our comfort zone, we may look to others for a sense of ourselves. And if you’re new, it’s easy to compare yourself unfavorably. Because look, you look around, and everyone looks like they know what they’re doing. So another example is, if you’re new in the boardroom, and everyone else has been there a while and you’re the newest one in the boardroom. Now, they may be totally welcoming. And they may also be thrilled to have you because, you know, say you’re a new board member. And they’re so thrilled to have you because you have these great skills. And that’s why they asked you to be a member of the board.

Dr. Melissa Smith 19:08
So they respect you, they value you, they’re happy to have you. But it’s your first time as a new board member. And so it’s, it’s uncertain, you don’t know what to expect. And so when we come to new situations, it’s very natural and normal to look around to see you know, how to do things and to get a sense of ourselves. And if we’re not careful to compare ourselves to others, and to compare ourselves unfavorably if we’re not careful, especially if we have this internalized fear that, you know, our accomplishments don’t matter. And so, you know, the other people in the room have no desire to To judge us, but if we’re not careful, we will judge ourselves. And so this is why, you know, the solutions that I’ll talk about are so important, because self talk in these moments really, really matters a lot to be able to say, Hey, this is my first time as a board member. And so of course, it’s new. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have anything to contribute. And they asked me to be here for a reason. But so it’s so important to remember that it’s certain circumstances or situations that really are going to kick up the imposter syndrome. So let’s think about the factors associated with imposter syndrome. And of course, imposter syndrome, right? As a syndrome, right? It’s a collection of factors or a collection of symptoms. And so, right, many of us have probably had those experiences of feeling like an imposter. And, and then there are some people who are plagued by imposter syndrome. And so I just want to acknowledge that imposter syndrome happens along a continuum. And so just because you have felt like an imposter, at times in your life doesn’t mean you’re necessarily plagued by this all of the time. It really happens on a continuum. And so the question that I want you to pay attention to, for yourself, as you go through this podcast is, how much does it impact your functioning? does it keep you from pursuing goals? does it keep you from advancing in your career? does it keep you from saying yes to growth opportunities? And if the you know, if the answer to most of those questions is yes, then that’s where we really want to help you tackle imposter syndrome. But the fact that there are times in your life that you might feel like you’re an imposter, that’s a pretty understandable feeling. So for example, my husband’s example, in the military, right, that didn’t keep him from serving. You know, like, it wasn’t not a great feeling for him, that first time he was on base, but he was able to push through. And now you know, of course, has been serving for many, many years. And it’s, it’s been a lovely part of his career. But we just kind of want to think about how, how significantly, is it impacting your functioning. So the factors that are often associated with imposter syndrome include first perfectionism, right? I’ve already mentioned that. So this idea that I must be the best, we can have very unrealistic expectations, a very high bar, and it’s just unrelenting. Of course, like I mentioned, I have a really good podcast coming up on perfectionism. So I’m not going to say much more about that now, except to say to say, stay tuned, because I will have a lot more to say about that. In, in a couple weeks, and really, the the key about perfectionism is that perfectionism is used to compensate for that feeling of Look, the fear of looking over your shoulder of like, Oh, my efforts aren’t good enough. Okay, the other factor, of course, is fear of failure. So let’s just think about imposter syndrome. So you experience it in new uncertain situations where there could be a higher likelihood of failure, right? Because it’s a new situation. And so if you have

Dr. Melissa Smith 24:02
an intense fear of failure, or if you see failure as a dark mark on your soul, right, that’s often how I talk about the negative view of failure. You could have some intense imposter syndrome in new and novel situations. And so if you have an intense fear of failure, that is just going to raise the stakes on imposter syndrome. And then another factor associated with imposter syndrome includes continually undermining your own achievement. And this is the one that’s super insidious. And we really want you to learn to take a compliment already. So this is, you know, really the most challenging aspect of imposter syndrome because there’s evidence to counteract imposter syndrome but you You won’t let it in. And so in this way, you’re actively working against yourself. And you know, you’ve got help at your door, that you’re slamming the door on the help. And so it’s, it’s where you’re actively working against yourself. And so I want you to see that I want you to have the curiosity and the self awareness, to see the ways that you might be acting and actively working against yourself. So at a certain point, you need to decide if you are willing to let go of your need to be right about the imposter syndrome. Plus, undermining your achievements keeps you from connecting with others. So when you undermine your achievements, or refuse to accept compliments, and encouragement from others, in a very real way, you reject connection with others. So the the point that is so important here is that it’s not just about you alone, but it you know, imposter syndrome, it prevents, it prevents connection with others. And it also prevents the growth of others because you reject connecting with others. And you you reject opportunities to grow with others. And in that way, it harms relationships. Of course, we know that imposter syndrome can create major negative life impacts. And of course, this is if you’re on the far end of the continuum, where imposter syndrome is really impacting your functioning. So it’s keeping you from, you know, progressing in your career or taking on work opportunities. So some of the impacts include stress, anxiety, low self confidence, because it can become more pervasive over time, right? If that fear stops you from doing things, if it stops you from moving forward and facing the fear, then it becomes more pervasive, it also impacts you in the form of shame. So I’m not good enough, I don’t belong, others are better than me. And of course, ultimately, it can lead to some pretty significant depression, if you’re not careful. And imposter syndrome, can keep you from developing your potential. And I think that’s the one that, that, that that’s the one that breaks my heart the most, because it limits your confidence. And it keeps you from developing courage. It keeps you from trying new things. And it keeps you from exploring potential areas of interest. It keeps you from pursuing purpose and applying for new positions. And so in a very real way, you fail to develop your potential. And it’s not that that potential doesn’t exist, it’s that the potential remains on

Unknown Speaker 28:29

Dr. Melissa Smith 28:31
Okay, so now let’s talk about some solutions for imposter syndrome. So solution, one, don’t go it alone. So imposter syndrome thrives on secrecy and shame, shame is really at the foundation of imposter syndrome, shame and of course, fear. So, key to imposter syndrome is a feeling of being alone as the only one in the room that doesn’t belong. And of course, this is where shame thrives. And so the antidote to shame is empathy. And it can be so incredibly powerful to have others, even one other person whom you can share your doubts with, and who can provide empathy. And so the thing with choosing someone is, be careful. Be careful with who you choose. So you don’t want someone who’s going to engage in empathy misses. And of course, that comes from the great work of Bernie brown and her dare to lead research. But you want someone who can validate your feelings and who gets it, and who can normalize your experience. So maybe someone who can say, I’ve been there before. Yeah, like I know what that feels like. That’s rough that’s so painful. And someone who can maybe say your feelings are very understandable. The individual does not have to have been through what you are experiencing, to understand your experience. Right. And here’s the other thing, they don’t have to totally understand your experience in order to empathize with you. And I think that’s often a misunderstanding about empathy. They don’t have to totally get it, in order to empathize with you. Can they listen? Can they show up with compassion, and with care, and really hold space for you Listen, and so you know, a coach, a friend, a mentor, a colleague at work, these are all really good candidates for not going it alone when it comes to imposter syndrome. And this is where I mean, I think, a really great support group or peer group, you know, I have an accountability group. And I love those ladies. And it’s so helpful. And, you know, we definitely talk and I have definitely talked with them about those times when I have felt that imposter syndrome, and it’s so helpful to have those, those conversations and those moments of support. Okay, solution to manage your mindset. Boy, this is a big one for all of us. So remind yourself that many people have felt the same way have felt like they are an imposter, especially when they’re in new circumstances. So you are in good company. And of course, this is one of the key tenants of self compassion is our common humanity. So this ability to acknowledge that we are not alone in our challenges, and then, of course, being able to respond to ourselves with kindness, which is another tenet of self compassion. And so you know, reminding yourself that you’re not alone. And then having a go to mantra that you can repeat to yourself when those fraudulent feelings creep in. So for example, you know, what, I’ve worked hard to get where I am. And though I don’t have everything figured out, I have a lot of value to add. So have a mantra that you can repeat to yourself, when imposter syndrome shows up for you. Okay, so I have, I have done some of the dared lead, actually, I’ve done all the training for dare to lead with Bernie Brown. And of course, at this point, we are conducting all of the training for leaders and organizations virtually. And of course, this, every organization in the world is facing huge challenges right now. And as a certified dare to lead facilitator.

Dr. Melissa Smith 33:23
You know, the the work is really incredible. And the work is also very challenging. And I remember when we were wrapping up the training with Bernie Brown, she said, you all, you all belong in this room, right? Like, we’ve vetted you, you all belong here. And she was really speaking to that imposter syndrome, that so many felt in that room, because the work is challenging. And the work really does call you to do your best work. And, and so that is that could be a mantra, right? Like I’ve been vetted. And so think about a mantra that could be helpful for you. Whether that’s I’ve done my work, and I’m prepared to, you know, be at this table, or I’m prepared for this presentation. And so managing your mindset can be really helpful and having a go to mantra that you can repeat to yourself can be immensely helpful in those moments. Okay, now is solution three, make a list. So make a list of your accomplishments and skills and pull it out when you are feeling down and even like before, one of these events when you’re like feeling that imposter syndrome creep up. Get that well list out and pull it up, it can be a good reminder of how far you have come. And I actually think this can be really helpful when you’re like, Okay, that’s right. Like I do have these credentials I have, I have done a lot of work to make it this far. And when you are feeling fear, it’s easy to forget about all of your accomplishments. Okay, solution for be aware of comparison. Comparison will take you down in a heartbeat. When it comes to imposter syndrome, it’s just not helpful. So I have not found a useful form of comparison, because typically someone ends up better than, and someone ends up worse than, and this is so very true when it comes to imposter syndrome. So it is really the one up one down phenomenon with comparison. And so as much as possible, we really just want to avoid comparison. So you know, when you compare and related to imposter syndrome, you’re typically coming to the situation from a position of not feeling good enough. And so any comparison is going to be tainted by that perspective. And so even if there were useful qualities, that you could learn from a quote from a colleague, right, which, of course there are, of course, there are useful qualities that you could learn from a colleague, the chances of you gleaning anything from the place of fear, and, you know, feeling like an imposter, the chances of you gleaning anything positive are very low, because of your perspective of not feeling good enough. And so that’s why I’m saying, Just don’t do it. So just stay away from comparison, because I don’t have much confidence that when you are feeling like an imposter, that that comparison is going to be helpful or useful in any way. So just stay away from it. comparison is the thief of joy. And it keeps you from asking for help and connecting with others, right. So it really sets you up for that one up one down dynamic, which absolutely prevents meaningful connection. Okay, and then solution five, tolerate your fear. And that’s a big one. So of course, imposter syndrome is one of the many ways fear shows up in our life. And though we don’t want to be ruled by our fear, it can provide very valuable information for us. Right. So fear is an instructor, but we don’t want to be ruled by it. So fear can tell us when we’re in danger and need to get out of a situation. Fear can teach us

Dr. Melissa Smith 38:10
about rejection. Fear can help us understand these feelings of not being good enough. But here’s the thing, fear can also be a sign that we are on the right path, that we’re pursuing purpose and that we are living a courageous life. So we shouldn’t always back away at the first sign of fear, because fear can really inform us. So again, we don’t want to be ruled by fear. And we often need to learn to move forward with fear as our companion. So it may very well be a sign that we’re on our path. And so don’t be ruled by fear, but definitely be informed by it. Okay, so pay attention to fear and don’t necessarily avoid things that frighten you. So I love this quote from Steven pressfield. He has so many great quotes, on fear. So this is why he says, Are you paralyzed with fear? That’s a good sign. Fear is good, like self doubt. Fear is an indicator, if your tells us what we have to do. Remember one rule of thumb, the more scared we are of a work or calling, the more sure we can be that we have to do it. So I love that. So fear informs us and so we don’t want to be ruled by it, but we do want to be informed by it.

Unknown Speaker 39:59
And then

Dr. Melissa Smith 40:01
Let’s move to solution six. recall how you got where you are. So it wasn’t by chance, you’re probably just scared. So it’s new, this is new for you. And it’s totally understandable that you’re scared, it’s new. But that doesn’t mean that you can’t do it, you’re prepared for it. And you didn’t get here by chance. And so this is the other thing to think about. So, you know, if you are an experienced public speaker, and you find yourself being really scared at a public speaking event, think about what might be different? Is it that you’re speaking to a new audience? Is it that you’re speaking in a new forum? Is it that you’re speaking to a larger audience? Is it that you’re speaking to? To a different subject? Right. And so there are lots of factors that will kick up that fear. You know, so for me, I had spent a lot of my career in the clinical world as a psychologist. And as I have shifted more, to the leadership side of things, I have certainly felt that imposter syndrome kicked up, even though as a psychologist, I mean, have a ton of confidence. But it’s, it’s a new context. And so even though I have a lot of confidence in my skills, and in my skills as they apply to leadership, right, like, the context is different. And some of the audiences are different. And so, you know, when you think about, okay, why might this fear be kicking up, just consider all of the potential factors that might be contributing to some of that fear. And then, of course, go back to having some compassion for yourself. But if you kind of can go through some of those factors, it can help you to bring in some perspective, and some understanding, and then some compassion, which, of course, is really important. So we as part of that solution, six as you recall how you got where you are, and keep a record of the feedback you’ve received over time and review it, because that can be really helpful for you, you can see how you’ve grown over time, you can also review your resume, and your track record of success. And that can also be very helpful. And you can see how you’ve been prepared to be where you are now. Because right in those moments of fear, our sense of perspective goes out the window, we get tunnel vision, and we fail to see the big picture. And so you’ve got to bring in perspective, you’ve got to bring in that path, you’ve got to bring in that leadership journey so that you can really see things more clearly. Okay, and then solution seven, remember that failure is the price of success. And you know, some some days, I just wish that weren’t so but it is true. Failure is the price of success for others and for you. So you’re also in good company, you’re not alone in that true truth. You’re not the exception. And learn to fail forward, learn to integrate the lessons, dust yourself off, and move forward. And again, this is where it’s so helpful to ask for feedback, so that you can learn and move forward. But what I would say with this solution, seven is to respect the process, that if you want to grow, and if you want to reach your potential, you need to respect that failure is part of the process. And it’s okay. And it’s okay to be scared. But keep moving forward and learn to fail forward and it’s okay. It’s okay. You’re in good company. And if you if you will allow yourself to to have support and to reach out for support. It makes the growth process so much better because you don’t have to do it alone. And you have others to help pick you up and dust you off. And boy that can make all the difference in the world. Okay, and then solution eight is to abandon perfectionism. Boy, this is an albatross around

Dr. Melissa Smith 44:59
your neck. NEC, it will keep you fragile, it will keep you close off to feedback. And it will keep you alone on your leadership journey. So, I will not say more about solution eight right now, which is abandoned perfectionism. But like I was, like I’ve already mentioned, I have a really great podcast coming up on this very topic. And so stay tuned, because that that podcast is going to keep you is going to have you covered on everything you need to know about perfectionism and really overcoming it. And that of course, goes hand in hand with overcoming imposter syndrome. So, there you go, eight solutions for overcoming imposter syndrome. And, you know, I’m really excited because I have a free masterclass coming up the beginning of September, where I am going to be focusing on exactly these issues. So it’s all about this question of are you reaching your leadership potential? Because right, what happens with imposter syndrome is if we’re not careful, we fail to reach our leadership potential because fear gets in the way, and we do not want that happening to you. And so with this masterclass, I am going to be talking about how you can reach your leadership potential. And so I’m going to be talking about three keys to help you thrive without feeling overwhelmed, without feeling depleted and without feeling alone. And so stay tuned to learn how to register for this masterclass, it’s going to be really good. And I hope it can really help you to tap into your leadership potential because I know you’ve got great things to do. And I really, I’m so committed to helping you pursue what matters and so I’m just really excited about bringing this masterclass to you. So, in the meantime, make sure you head on over to my website to check out the show notes with all the great resources for this episode at www.drmelissasmith.com/episode-69 one more time that’s www.drmelissasmith.com/episode-69 I’m Dr. Melissa Smith. Remember love and work, work and love. That’s all there is. Until next time, take good care.

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