Pursue What Matters
Episode 127: Learning to Tolerate Risk Pt. 1: Security Needs
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Dr. Melissa Smith 0:00
Are you risk aversive? Is that a bad thing? Well, it could be tolerating risk underpins growth and success. So join me today to learn how you can take some healthy risks in your life. What does it mean to love and work well, and how do I pursue what truly matters? Working at the intersection of business and psychology? I help you answer these questions and more. So you can focus priorities, inspire, change, lead with courage, and live with more joy today.
Dr. Melissa Smith 0:35
Hi, I’m Dr. Melissa Smith, welcome to the Pursue What Matters Podcast, where we focus on what it takes to thrive in love and work. So are you risk averse, or perhaps you’re one of those that take too many risks in your life. So if you’re an entrepreneur, you probably have a pretty high tolerance for risk. Now, if you are at the same job, that you started from college, and you’re not 22, then you probably have a pretty low tolerance for risk. So why does it matter? Right? Like, why does it matter? If you have a hard time tolerating risk? Well, today, I’m talking all about risk tolerance, to help you figure this out, because it really does matter. It has big implications, not only for success, fulfillment of potential and well being right. But it really is a lot of times right when we were living our lives blind, and we don’t have awareness about the factors that are informing our decisions. And so of course, the goal is to help you increase your awareness. And so I think this is all important. I’m actually doing a three part series on this topic, right. So the, the series is all about learning to tolerate risk. And today, we’re so first we’re going to introduce you to the topic and then jump into security needs.
Dr. Melissa Smith 1:56
So this is the first of a three part series where we’re going to help you break down your needs, so that you can have better decision making, you can have more clarity about your personal risk tolerance. And you can have increased commitment to growth, despite uncertainty, right, because life is always going to be uncertain life is always going to be challenging. And so we want you to be able to grow despite those challenges. And so today with part one, I’m going to help you by first helping you understand your needs for both security and growth as humans, we have both. And this understanding can really help bring awareness about your own risk tolerance. And it can also bring you clarity about why some decisions will never be a good fit for you, right? There are some of us like we’re just not jumping off a cliff, it doesn’t matter if we have a squirrel suit on, it’s just not happening. This can also help you to have a bit more compassion for both yourself and others when it comes to facing down fears. Because then fears are scary, right? I mean, that is the most self evident statement. But what do you do in the face of fear? does it lead you to cower? Or does it lead you to grow, and that’s really what we want to pay attention to.
Dr. Melissa Smith 3:12
And then today, I will also do a deep dive into our security needs. So these are needs that everyone has, but the way that we cope with them, and how we respond to our security needs, can really help us to either grow or to stagnate. And so we want to be very mindful of that. And then next week, we will move into part two, where we’re going to talk all about our growth needs. And these are the needs that help us to take meaningful action in our lives. Help us to grow, help us to succeed, help us to face down fears. And then we’ll wrap it all up in a couple of weeks with part three, where we’ll focus on helping you find the balance between security needs and growth needs. Because right, they’re both important. It’s not about getting rid of one and embracing the other. But it’s about really finding integration and balance so that you can make better decisions for yourself. And as part of that episode, we will share several practical solutions to help nudge you towards more balanced and more integration, if you might be a bit out of balance.
Dr. Melissa Smith 4:22
And so of course every week with the podcast, my goal is to help you pursue what matters by strengthening your confidence to lead. And today we’re really focusing on helping you lead with clarity, okay, and so when we think about risk tolerance, we want to have clarity about what matters in order to do a good risk assessment. There are some risks that are not worth taking to you because you don’t have a sense of purpose around them. And there are other risks that are absolutely worth your time and energy. And so you’ve got to have clarity about what matters to you in order to make make informed decisions for yourself. And so we’re really helping you strengthen your ability to lead with clarity. And ultimately, we want to be paying attention to good decision making.
Dr. Melissa Smith 5:15
The second area that I always try and help you with is leading with curiosity. And so today, we are going to help you in that department, right, we want to help you have self awareness about your risk profile, because this profile informs so much of your decision making. And yet, if you’re clueless about it, you don’t have awareness about your risk profile, it can, it can lead you to first of all support decision making. But it can also lead you to being self critical, when you know, you commit to something, but then you don’t follow through with it. Because there can be some hidden intentions, they’re going to be some hidden fears, that if you don’t do your work around self awareness, you’re not going to unearth that. And so you end up with contradictory behavior in your life. And of course, we don’t want that we want you to have alignment between what matters most to you, and what you’re doing on a daily basis and the decisions that you’re making, right, we want that to be consistent, we want there to be alignment. And then the third area is leading and building a community. And we’re going to touch on this as well, because you have relationships, whether at work or at home, with individuals with very different risk profiles.
Dr. Melissa Smith 6:27
So for example, if you can tolerate a lot of risk, and your partner is very risk averse, right, you can run into a lot of problems when it comes to decision making. And we see the exact same thing happen on teams, teams have to make important decisions, they have to make big decisions, they have to make decisions that sometimes include a fair amount of risk, right? I mean, anyone in business has to be willing to make those decisions. And so you know, if you find that you’re running up against a brick wall with your team, and trying to get to a decision, take a step back, and pay attention to risk tolerance. And I think that that can bring a ton of insight, and can inform that decision making process. And so then rather than, you know, being critical of yourself or critical of others, like what, what more do they need to make a decision, you can actually lead with empathy, and actually get to the heart of the issue, which is what are the underlying fears and needs, what do you need to be able to move forward on this decision. And so understanding risk profiles, and risk tolerance can be a game changer with our teams and our organizations. And it’s something that we always want to be thinking about.
Dr. Melissa Smith 7:50
So let’s jump right in with point number one. And that is you need to understand your underlying needs. So this is a situation where psychology can really inform us so well, it’s got so much to teach us here. And it has really big implications for what I just spoke about in terms of decision making, cutting along effective communication. And so as humans, we have needs to be safe and secure. Right? I think we all would agree with that. But we also have needs for growth, and adventure seeking. So if you just think about evolution, you can see both of these needs showing up all over the place. So for example, right back in the day, if you think about the caveman, like if you did not prioritize safety and security in your decision making, you could lose your tribe, you could get lost, you could be killed. The bottom line is, if you didn’t pay attention to security needs, if you didn’t look out for yourself, you wouldn’t be around long. So you’d lose your community, you could get lost, you could be killed. And so we always need to pay attention to our security needs. But here’s the other side of that coin, as humans, we also have, we have also needed to prioritize adventure seeking and novelty in order to grow and thrive.
Dr. Melissa Smith 9:26
So think about this, think about the caveman or think about, you know, maybe let’s let’s think about nomadic people, right? That this, the safety and the security came from being part of the community, right. And there’s a lot to be said about that in terms of social connection and implications for us. You work together so you didn’t get lost, you work together so you were more protected from prey, right? You work together and you paid attention to these security needs, so that you could remain safe. So so that the whole tribe could help one another. But we’ve also needed to prioritize adventure seeking in order to grow and thrive. So for example, if we think about this nomadic people, they needed to find new lands, so that they could feed themselves so they could see their animals so they could feed their tribe. And so it’s nice to feel secure that sometimes, right, if you’re not careful, it can leave you stuck in survival mode, right? And you’re not thriving, you’re not getting the variety of food, the abundance of food and animals to heart, right. And so you need to have a willingness to adventure you have, you need to have a willingness to move into the unknown. So we needed to be willing to see what is on the other side of the cliff, we needed, we needed to be able to cross the river, because there was food on the other side. And so there was absolute value in trying new things in order to discover new things enrich our life. And this is an important point to move from survival to thriving. But anytime you move towards adventure seeking, and novelty seeking, of course, you open the door for more risk. And by the way, right? When we focus on safety and security, there’s also risk involved in that. So it’s not like you can you can, you can make decisions that keep you perfectly safe. I think we all know, that’s not a thing. And so that’s just a look back to evolution, right. And it is the same with us today, we need security, and we need growth in order to thrive.
Dr. Melissa Smith 11:44
But here’s the thing to understand. If we are prioritizing security, to the exclusion of growth, we end up depressed, anxious and hopeless, right? We’re surviving, but we’re not thriving, we lose meaning in our lives. It’s the same thing a day, day in and day out. And you can see how this can be a recipe for depression. And again, you’re surviving, but you’re not thriving. And often in these situations, the question becomes, what’s the point and that’s a sure sign that you’ve lost some meaning in your life. But of course, right again, the other side of that core coin, if we prioritize growth, to the exclusion of security, the bottom line is we end up dead, we not to be dramatic, right? We end up without meaningful relationships. And we lack a stable foundation for coping. And so of course, we need to strike a balance. And so the goal for us as we talk about risk tolerance today is to recognize that the goal is to integrate both our security needs and our growth needs, they both matter, they’re both really, really important. And we should never, we should never move towards one to the exclusion of the other. So this is the path that leads to greater happiness. This is the path that leads to more meaningful relationships. This is the path that leads to purpose driven living, and greater well being. And so the research is very powerful on this front.
Dr. Melissa Smith 13:29
So we’ve got to integrate, integrate both our security needs, and our growth needs. And so this is the sweet spot where we are fulfilling potential. Because remember, right, I talk a lot about fulfilling potential. That fulfilling potential is never about you alone, but it is about who you can become as you can contribute to others. It is about how you contribute to a purpose greater than yourself. It is about what you can uniquely bring to the world. And right, it’s about why fulfilling your potential matters, not only to you personally, but to others. Because it’s never just about you. Right? So if we’re just seeking adventure, for adventure’s sake, we might be missing the point, you might have fun, but can we embrace a larger purpose there.
Dr. Melissa Smith 14:26
Okay, so now, let’s learn a little bit more about our security needs and our growth needs. So we’re going into point two, which is security needs, we all have them. So remember, there’s not a right or wrong, so I really don’t want you to take that message home. But let’s take a look at our security needs. Another way of thinking about security needs are our deficiency needs. And that you know, that’s not a bad word. It’s just acknowledging that as humans were deficient in some of our needs, because of We can’t wholly meet our needs ourselves, right? There is a reason we are in communities, there is a reason that we are in relationship, because we are wired. Right, we are literally wired for connection. And so when you think about security needs, these needs are motivated by a lack of satisfaction.
Dr. Melissa Smith 15:24
Okay, so let’s think of some examples. So maybe it’s a lack of food, we’re driven to get food because we’re hungry, and we need it, that’s not a bad thing, that’s actually a really important need to pay attention to, we might be motivated by a lack of safety, we might be motivated by a lack of affection, right? So think about the lonely person who really doesn’t want to date really doesn’t want to get on the dating app, but they’re lonely, they desire affection, right? That would be a security need. And so seeking out connection, right, hopefully, in meaningful ways, and that can involve risk for sure. But what’s motivating that is a security need. So the lack of affection. Some other examples include lack of belonging, and lack of self esteem, okay, so the security needs are driven by fears, that’s the thing to pay attention to. And as humans living in a big, bad, mean world, we as humans are driven by fear, there’s just no way around it, and are the human brain is highly attuned to fear highly attuned to negative stimuli. So whether it was to be able to see the lion on the savanna, right, you needed to pay attention to that you needed to see very clearly when there was a potential predator on the scene. And so the human brain is often driven by fear. But the problem is, right, we don’t want to be driven by fear when we’re not in a predator prey situation. So that’s the real trick that we have with our modern times, right? Because our brain is not very modern, it’s still very primitive, and the brains amazing. But as far as the emotional network of the brain, it’s pretty primitive. And so the security needs are driven by fears, anxieties, suspicions, and a constant need to make demands on reality. So right, like, I need this, I want this, I don’t have enough. So it’s that lack, lack of food safety, affection, belonging, self esteem.
Dr. Melissa Smith 17:46
So security needs color your view of the world, and this is the thing to know about security needs, they distort reality. So think about that. And think about how that was functional, right? For nomadic people, when they get hungry, and think about yourself today, right? Like, I can just, I see this in myself, when I get hungry. it distorts reality, right? We get hangry, we’re like, I gotta get food, like, Don’t talk to me, we might snap at people, we might not be able to concentrate on other things. Because we need to feel our lack, right? And we can even get into fear based thinking around oh my gosh, like, when can I eat like I like I need to eat, right? Where’s the Where’s the rest, stop, where’s the gas station, whatever, if you’re on a road trip, and so by, right, by default, our security needs distort our reality. Because in those moments, we get tunnel vision, all we care about is getting food, all we care about is getting to safety. And so it distorts reality. And the thing to pay attention to is in security situations, right? Where there is a true lack of security or safety. It is functional, that this distortion of reality is happening. Right. So if you think about a woman, being on a dark street, and realizing a man is following her, she’s needs to be highly attuned to what’s happening. She needs to look to safety, she needs to get herself to safety. So she’s not going to be paying attention to the podcast playing in her ears, she’s not going to be paying attention to oh my goodness, I might be late to meet my friend for dinner know her, her reality becomes distorted because of the need to, to guarantee safety right to get those safety needs met. And so she gets tunnel vision. And that happens for all of us. Right again, that can be absolutely functional.
Dr. Melissa Smith 19:54
So we don’t want to demonize these security needs, but it’s about balance and recognizing that we’re Not always in danger. And that’s the that’s the learning that needs to happen with our brains, because they don’t necessarily know when we’re not really in danger or when we are because physiologically, we respond the same ways. So when I think about the security needs, I think about the inner toddler: feed me, hold me, solve my problems, right? Think about that toddler throwing a tantrum, they just they cannot manage life in those moments. And they want want want. So when we think about these security needs, again, it comes from a place of lack, it comes from a place of not enough, never enough. So not enough love, not enough time, not enough worth. And again, there are times when this lack is true, and accurate. And we do need to prioritize security. But the problem happens is when we constantly and chronically feel that sense of lack, so we never feel like we have enough time, we never feel like we have enough love, we never feel good enough. And that’s when the hyper focus on security needs really can hamper our growth. And it also prevents us actually from getting our needs met because it pushes people away. And again, the other thing to really keep in mind is it distorts your reality, because you can move very quickly to no one loves me, no one cares about me, I’m so stressed, I’m so busy, I’m never gonna have enough time. You run the risk of becoming a martyr around your work.
Dr. Melissa Smith 21:39
And then this pervasive sense of, of low self worth can just take over your whole life, because the security needs distort reality. And so the greater the deficiency of your security needs. So the more you feel like you don’t have enough love or enough worth, whatever the security need is, the more you will distort reality, to fit your expectations, that’s really important to pay attention to I’m going to repeat that because it’s so important.
Dr. Melissa Smith 22:12
So the greater the deficiency of your security needs, the more you distort reality, to fit your expectations. And here’s the second part of that. And you treat others in accordance with their utility in helping you satisfy your most efficient needs. So when you have extreme security needs, you will distort reality fit to fit your expectations, and then you’re going to be at risk for using people to get your needs met.
Dr. Melissa Smith 22:40
So let’s just think about this with a simple example related to food, right, so I talked about this earlier. And I work with a lot of folks in eating recovery. So this is a common theme. And one that’s very familiar to me in my professional work. But it’s familiar to all of us because we all need to eat throughout the day. So if you are famished, right, maybe circumstances have led to you not being able to get anything to eat all day. Well, first of all, I’d say plan better. But you’re, you’re so hungry, right? Like you could you could eat your right arm, but not your right arm. If you’re right, if you’re right handed, so maybe your left, you’re just starving. And so everything becomes hyper focused on getting that food, and others are either a help or a hindrance to you getting food. So you know, you’re you come home, you say hi to your spouse, they’re like, hey, how was your day? You’re like, I need to eat? Can you make me something? Or can we go somewhere or I can’t talk to you until I make myself something, right. And so you will treat others in accordance with their utility in helping you satisfy your most efficient needs. And so when it comes to security needs, we don’t see reality as it is, we see it through the lens of our needs.
Dr. Melissa Smith 24:04
Okay, so that’s the really important thing to pay attention to. And so when you have a lot of security needs, you also employ some predictable defense mechanisms to protect yourself from the pain of not having enough and not being enough, okay. So when we think about defense mechanisms, they are there and they serve to protect, but ultimately, they harm us because they hinder our growth, we fail to grow. And so when you hear defense mechanisms, defense mechanisms, generally speaking, are not functional. Now there are times when defensive strategy is functional. But generally speaking, defense mechanisms are things we employ to help ourselves cope in effectively right so that it’s ineffective. And so let’s think about the defense mechanisms we see with security needs.
Dr. Melissa Smith 25:03
So first, we see isolation. Because if you feel like everyone hates you, you’re you don’t want to hang out with them, you’re going to pull away. There’s a refusal to make decisions. And so then what happens is decisions are made by default. And so if you’re very risk aversive, you might not make proactive decisions in your life. And so, you know, you become a passenger in your own life rather than an actor, right, rather than in the driver’s seat. And so another defense mechanism is staying at arm’s distance in relationships. Because getting too close, letting yourself be vulnerable, is too risky, you don’t know they might hurt you, they might decide they don’t like you. And so you keep with people at a distance, there’s a significant avoidance of challenges. So taking the easy road, if there’s an easy button, if there’s an easy option, when you are focused on security needs, that’s what you’re going to take. There’s also perfectionistic behavior. And this is a big pattern with security needs, because with the perfectionistic behavior, so you’re very, very busy trying to achieve and accomplish and accrue gold stars. But the perfectionistic behavior is coming from a place of not enough, it’s coming from that place of lack, which is what the security needs are all about. And so the perfectionistic behavior is an attempt to protect oneself against failure. But of course, it actually sets you up for failure, because no one’s perfect. And when you try to do everything, and you try to do everything perfectly, you inevitably will fail. There’s also a resistance to feedback. Because if you don’t feel like you’re good enough, if you don’t, if you feel uncertain about your skills, to get feedback from someone can feel like it confirms your worst belief about yourself. And so you push feedback away, you get very defensive, if feedback is given to you. And then again, relative to decision making, it gets very reactive.
Dr. Melissa Smith 27:14
So you’re reacting against rather than responding to live and rather than proactively making decisions and really leading your life. And that’s what we want to think about when we think about pursuing what matters, you’re leading your life. And then we also have future tripping. So when there’s a lot of fear and anxiety, and uncertainty about the future, we engage future tripping, which is to jump into the future and say, what could if I make this decision, what will happen and what will happen and what will happen? They’ll hate me, I shouldn’t speak up, I’m going to get fired. And we make up stories that are often laden with fear and doubt and anxiety. And they’re horrible stories. They’re disastrous stories, but they serve the function of giving us some certainty. Right? Okay, well, I knew how that was going to end. And so it’s a way of actually protecting ourselves from growth. So to say, I’m not going to do that, because I know it’s not going to end well. So that is what future tripping is that’s a term that I came up with, I think maybe other people use it. But it’s that jumping into the future instead of staying in the present, and future tripping is laden with anxiety. And ultimately, it becomes a defense mechanism against growth, because you already know how it’s going to turn out. And so why try what’s the point. And as a result, your life gets smaller, rather than larger as a result of decisions. And that’s something important to pay attention to, right with human development. We are thinking about expanding, right? We’re expanding our connections, we’re expanding our knowledge, we’re expanding our interactions with the world, right? Think about going from a baby to toddler to a teenager, to an adult, right, like appropriate human development is expansive. And so we want to make decisions that help expand our world, they expand our options, expand our connections. And when we engage these defense mechanisms, because we’re so stuck in the security needs, our life gets smaller. Right? And in a very real way, our development can stall out.
Dr. Melissa Smith 29:35
Okay. So sometimes people from the security stance, believe that they have some wisdom, right, so the question they often ask is, how can I defend myself so that I can feel safe and secure but it’s important to keep in mind that this is defensive wisdom, okay? It’s not true wisdom it’s wisdom in the service of fear, okay. And so that’s what we want to be careful of, we don’t want to be making decisions out of fear. And then, of course, there’s a high focus on security needs, which leads to feeling overwhelmed by life. So you just can’t handle the uncertainty. If you’re perfectionistic, you can’t handle the demands that you’ve created for yourself. And so the net result is to narrow your worldview, right? This is how the world gets smaller for you. It also leads so the overwhelm leads to extreme reactions to life and its challenges. It leads to distorted reality, because you’re responding to your fear and your security needs, rather than to the world rather than to reality. And then, of course, there’s a lack of self awareness. Because that distorted reality prevents you from seeing yourself clearly, you just don’t see things clearly including yourself. And then the fear based thinking prevents you from confronting yourself appropriately. And each of us for our growth and development, need to be willing to confront ourselves, we need to be willing to say, Why did I do that, that or that was not in line with my values. Fear Based Thinking prevents you from holding yourself accountable. And fear based thinking ultimately leads you to a failure of responsibility for your life and your choices. Because you don’t make decisions. You don’t make choices in service to your growth. And so you survive, but you don’t thrive. And the other thing about these security needs when we are hyper focused on security needs, is we focus on short lived hedonic pleasure.
Dr. Melissa Smith 31:49
So hedonic pleasures, right, like what will help me feel better in this moment. Think about hedonism, right? That’s, that’s where this comes from. So what will make me feel better now? And if you think about so many of the addictive processes in our life, right, whether it’s alcohol use, whether it’s working too much gambling, right, like addictive behaviors are aimed at relieving distress, fear, and pain, right? That we want relief right now. And by default, this short lived focus really distorts and denies reality. And so what happens is we seek pleasure, instead of learning to cope with distress, okay, and that’s a real problem, because then the world becomes even bigger, even scarier to us. So the world becomes more fearful. And so we retreat even further into what we have constructed for ourselves as safety, but it’s not safe, because we’re meant to grow, we’re meant to connect. And those deficiency needs or the security needs are motivated by a lack, right, you’re safe, but you’re unhappy, you’re safe, but you’re unwell, you’re safe, but you have lower well being. And I would say I would make a strong argument that that does not make you safe. That does not make you safe, as humans were meant to grow.
Dr. Melissa Smith 33:21
Okay, so today, we have talked about your security needs, right? So we’re helping you to build your risk tolerance profile. And in today’s episode, we’ve talked about the security needs. Remember that these come from a lack of satisfaction, they are driven by fear, and security needs color, and distort reality. Okay. So those are the the three big points from our podcast today. We also talked about the defense mechanisms employed in security needs. And again, it’s not that there’s anything wrong with security needs, because we all need those in order to survive. But we don’t ever want to be so far on the end of the continuum towards security, that we fail to grow. And so I want to just leave you with a couple of challenges today, as you then hopefully are ready for our next podcast next week where we’re going to be talking about your growth needs. So what I want you to do so my first challenge for you is, what do you see as your security needs? Right? So where do you feel a lack in your life, for some people, they can feel a significant lack around finances, and that might not have so much to do with their life currently, but perhaps it has it grows out of their childhood right when money was really tight, or parents were always stressing about finances. And so you know, when we think about these security needs, yes, we all have the same basic security needs in terms of food and safety and belonging. But I really want you with this first challenge, to pay attention to, you know, one to three, really big security needs that sometimes get in the way for you.
Dr. Melissa Smith 35:27
So a big one is fear around finances. And that can lead to extreme hyper focus on managing finances, it can also lead to the opposite phenomenon, which is a total avoidance of finances, right? But that what’s driving, whatever the behavior is, is fear is lack, I’m never gonna have enough money, we’re gonna lose all of our money. So that’s a big theme for people. Another big theme for people is the lack of affection or belonging, no one loves me, my spouse can meet my needs or doesn’t, isn’t willing to meet my needs. And so this lack of affection, and boy, that can lead to a lot of unhelpful behaviors in terms of attention seeking, performing to get those gold stars. And then a third theme that is very common for people is the lack of self worth. So I’m not good enough. Anything I do, it doesn’t matter what I do, it’s not going to be good enough. And so consider what your what 123 of your safety need things are. And then I want you to pay attention to how those needs can sometimes distort your reality. Okay, well, sometimes I overreact in a situation, or sometimes I seek too much reassurance in my relationship. Sometimes I get really obsessive about finances, right? So how does, how does that security need show up in your life? How does it distort reality? How does it impact functioning and relationships.
Dr. Melissa Smith 37:18
And so that’s my challenge for you today. And a reminder that security needs are important, right? We just want them in balance. And then I hope you will join me next week, because I’m going to be talking all about our growth needs. And these are awesome, these are what help us to thrive. And then from there, we’re going to be talking about how do you find that sweet spot? So how do you strike a balance between security needs and growth needs, and I have a lot of great solutions to help you with that. But for today, I really want you to consider Okay, what are my big security needs that sometimes lead to distorting reality, and negatively impacting relationships. And so that’s, that’s the challenge for you this week. And then be sure to join me next week as we continue this conversation.
Dr. Melissa Smith 38:12
o you can head over to my website, check out the show notes with all the great resources for this episode. So a lot of this material comes from the excellent book, transcend, which is all about how do you self actualize? right and so there’s a lot of discussion about security needs, and growth needs. Of course, this is all research based. And so I will have a link to that excellent book at my website, and you can find that by heading to www.drmelissasmith.com/127-securityneeds. Okay, so one more time, that’s www.drmelissasmith.com/127-securityneeds. Okay. And in the meantime, definitely connect with me on Instagram. I’m @dr.melissasmith. I always have additional great content related to the podcast where we dig in a little bit deeper on some of these concepts. So I’d love to connect with you there. I’d love to hear what you think of the podcast you can review at Apple podcast or Spotify you can always communicate with me via Instagram as well and I’d love to hear from you. I’m Dr. Melissa Smith. Remember love and work, work and love. That’s all there is. Until next time, take good care.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai